Indulging, will, and death
Indulging, will, and deathSubscribe |
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Sat, 04/14/2007 - 09:35
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Julian Kingman
Join Date: 2005-03-16 Forum Posts: 239 |
It seems to me that many of us are bound by too many rules. Mustn't give into lust, mustn't give into greed, jealousy, etc... But these are intellectual ideas of what we ought to do, and have nothing to do with the work and everything to do with repression. Eckhart Tolle said something like: "suffering used to be the only way of growth, but now we have another way out" (not direct quote). The idea is that in the past, through experiencing the suffering caused by certain actions, they cease to be pleasurable to us and we stop doing them, move beyond them. The new way is to observe them through stillness and apply the death, which is NOT repression/not doing.Any decision you make, stand behind it 100%. If you must give into lust, make that your indomitable will! Take it as YOUR action!'NOOOO! I will lose all chance of enlightenment', I hear you say, 'we must follow the rules!'There ARE no rules, there are only steps. You'd be surprized how many egos you uncover when you go through WILLFULLY with lust. I'm not saying you SHOULD feed lust, but that if you feed it, feed it with your totality! Otherwise there's just more resistance, more devision.-J |
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Join Date: 2004-08-04
Forum Posts: 161
You made a good point with being bound by to many theories/concepts etc. It seems that when we have the mindset of "I must not feed this or that ego" then we are just suppressing the egos, not learning anything about them. It is better to be conscious and observe the egos for what they are (what do they make me do, what situation do they come up in, etc). Then we can begin to understand them and to change.
However there is a difference between observing the egos and to give in to them. Consciously feeding egos goes in the opposite direction to eliminating them.
Regards
Trent
Join Date: 2003-12-29
Forum Posts: 884
As I see it, there aren't rules necessarily - we all have free will. No one has to do anything, but there are consequences for every action that we make, and there are different ways we can lead our lives leading to various ends.
The more we learn about our egos, the more we will be able to understand the consequences of ego-driven actions and we'll also be leading a more spiritual life. It's not then about following rules and being repressed but about fighting against our egos so our soul can grow and true happiness can manifest within.
I have to disagree with you on your point about giving into lust. By intentionally giving into it, we make any spiritual development completely impossible - at least this is from my own experience.
We can never learn about an ego by intentionally feeding it; we only make it stronger and we actually end up taking steps backwards. Giving into lustful egos is especially harmful, but what I'm saying will probably just sound like some "rules"...
All the best!
ML
Join Date: 2004-11-30
Forum Posts: 2898
I agree with you too, usually we just beleive that we are "open-minded", while we follow so many rules, restrictions and regulations. It all comes from egos.
Rules are beyond the mind and how to make our mind, or let it make us, what to do and what not to do, is up to us.
Regarding Gnosticism, at least talking about Gnosticweb, there is nothing which we have to do, if we do something, it is because previously we have chosen it.
It is important to understand it.
If a person choses to eliminate egos, it makes sense for him not to feed them...
Is not feeding them a rule?
No, he or she just choses not to feed them, again and again.
And thus, that person moves forward.
I wish everybody to make the great choices, something which will help us now and in the future!
Join Date: 2006-12-14
Forum Posts: 299
If you feel that giving in will provide you knowledge ok do it.But then see the effects objectively.See the consequences that it has on your self and on your work.
I don't agree that there are no rules.There are rules and obligations.But we don't do them because someone told us but because we personally know the consequences of braking them.
Indulgence= food for egos
Join Date: 2004-09-05
Forum Posts: 1396
For me, I've seen the pendelum sway within myself when I was going through a bit of a crisis of faith. I've found myself fanatically following 'rules' and I've also gone in the opposite direction where I didn't want to follow any ideals or 'rules.' I realize that there aren't necessarily any concrete rules in this work, but for me, I have found that over time I did develop my own set of them (rules of behavior, etc..) that I needed to reassess and address.
Regarding indulging the egos, I've tried this. Earlier in the work, I had a lot of egos related to going out with friends, drinking and having 'fun.' So, when I started to realize that this was something I needed to stop doing, I would stop for a while...then, a big occassion would come up or something that I couldn't pass up. There were times in which I would tell myself that I would go and really get into the 'great time' so that I could learn more about those egos. It never worked out well and I knew deep inside that this wasn't the right way to approach the work anyway.
Now, I've learned to trust in the divine to bring the experiences that I need into my life. It's worked so far. I don't have to take it upon myself to find these experiences.
I think it's also important to keep in mind that egos, such as lust, can be eliminated by going after the details (like passing thoughts and feelings). We don't have to actually do something to gain an understanding of it, we just need to be constantly watching the egos as they arise internally. For example is that one doesn't need to physically assult another person to understand anger and violence, we can look into our thoughts and feelings and eliminate them at that level.
Like Mike, I've seen from experience that indulging any ego is just going to make it stronger.
I respect that everyone may look at this different, but this is what I've learned so far.
Gabrielle
Join Date: 2005-08-17
Forum Posts: 133
Don't worry about rules given to you by others. If you gain an understanding of what consciousness is then you will see that it is far superior to any ego. This is not subjective. Compare the vibrational quality of the egos to the consciousness.
Regards,
Dave.
Join Date: 2005-03-16
Forum Posts: 239
I believe the only difference when you don't completely go along with lust is that you are strengthening lust AS WELL AS resistance to lust, which is also ego. If you are conscious, then there is no lust, no resistance.
"Resist not evil"
-Jesus
Jesus was a scientist in the true sense of the word. If you would commit evil (which many of you would say lust is), then commit it; but do not resist it. You cannot escape what you are by saying you are not that. You are that (as the hindus say), and a great many other things.
-J
p.s- Don't trust me
Join Date: 2004-11-30
Forum Posts: 2898
1- ignore it ->
2- surrender to it->->
3 -resist it-> <-
4-Observe it (taught in Self Discovery course)
5-OBSERVE AND ELIMINATE IT. (taught in Gnostic Wisdom course)
Which choice do I suggest? (easy question)
Why? (hard question)
Join Date: 2003-08-20
Forum Posts: 70
I understand very much what you are saying: to not do stuff half-heartedly or be wishy-washy on things. That I can relate to. For me, though, I have found that it is also very important to avoid the extremes with the work and to have a clear goal. It's equally important to come to an understanding of the consequences of our actions.
It's no good to repress - that's obvious. But it's no good to indulge either, regardless of how it's worded. We have a certain amount of energy each day and when we indulge, we waste that - whether we do it consciously or not.
I guess the thing to ask always is: whose will is it? And this comes back to observation, which you've already mentioned as important.
I just wanted to share that since I've found extremes and blindly doing the opposite to be a possible obstacle as well.
As with all things, common sense first.
Don't mean to be preachy, just wanted to share.
Kind regards,
Kevin
Join Date: 2004-05-29
Forum Posts: 86
Was talking about this with a friend recently.
Seems that if we can maintain remeberence of our OWN BEING, having our consciousness manifest at each moment, then we dont need to remember to stick to any "rules" and feel burdened by self imposed "mental constructs", as my friend called them.
We are simply aware of whatever consequences there will be on ourselves and on those concerned.
Then it's up to us to decide on the action that will either bring us closer to the awakening of consciousness, or not.
Kind regards,
Robert