Learning more about Gnosticism just broke my heart
Learning more about Gnosticism just broke my heartSubscribe |
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Wed, 08/10/2005 - 19:09
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Anonymous
Join Date: Forum Posts: 670 |
I dont mean to try and cause a problem, im trying to understand something im reading about Gnosticism. Im so confused and need clarity.I came to Gnostic web very happy, thinking this is a new aged spiritual awareness offering the truth, happiness, and bliss.Looking at how you run the site I loved it. Its all about good people coming together and sharing information. But as a homosexual, I wanted to know what the Gnostic view is on homosexuality.So Looking around the site I see Samuel Aun Weor is a very high level and well respected teacher.So I read through one of his writings herehttp://www.gnosticweb.com/index.php?PageID=112http://www.gnosticweb.com/documents/EN_Hell_Devil_And_Karma.pdfHe starts talking about homosexuality on the end of page 75.The following is all on page 76:According to him:- were going to end up on the 7th layer of hell because of our crimes against nature.- We're degenerates and lost causes.- Were gay because we violently cast ourselves into the path of sexual degeneration.- We're infra-sexual degerates (thats a new one, never heard that before).- We should immediately go and marry a person of the opposite sex if we want to attempt to avoid hell. We should pray, cry and beg for forgiveness. Thats the only way of salvation fo us "Creatures".- Were completely degenerate. Some ares of our brains dont work anymore. We are a rotten seed.- We are lost causes, abortions of nature, complete failures.- On page 77 he says women who use contraceptives are hyenas of perversity. Wow, up until reading this I had nothing but positive feelings about being here, Now I feel like I'm a dog, or a rat, just because of who I am.I'm actually kind of freaked out reading that. its 4:30 and dark in my room and I have that shaky feeling, like I just watched a scary movie.I thought Gnosticism was all about love.But this is a teacher you follow and hold in high regards. So why the hatred?If this what you all truly believe? :'( |
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Join Date: 2003-08-23
Forum Posts: 338
Samael was extremely blunt and direct in the way he speaks and writes, and it takes a little bit of time to get used to that.
No one here hates homosexuals as far as I know, and gnosticism is not about hating and ostracising people, so dont worry about that :)
The issue of homosexuality is fairly complex, because there is a lot of esoteric background information needed, about issues like the egos, lust, alchemy and so on, and its is discussed in detail on the JTE course.
The work and the path is open to everyone, you just need to be truly determined that you want to take it up, and fight with all you have to overcome the negative elements within that bring about twists and kinks in the psyche.
So fight with that in mind, the work is amazing really, and can bring fundamental changes and immense rewards like we cannot even begin to imagine now...well worth the efforts we need to put in.
We just need to give ourselves the chance, work, practice and verify.
All the strength
Ahona
Join Date: 2004-02-08
Forum Posts: 167
Something else you may have picked up from Samaels writings is that everyone needs to take the techniques given and explore the teachings for themselves so that they can come to an understanding for themselves, not merely an intellectual database of theories.
The courses offered here are fundementally about practicing to discover for yourself. I severly doubt anyone comes here and immediately agrees with everything that is written, even after awhile there is still so much more to verify, to discover the truth about.
Regardless of what any theory says we should strive to practice to gain an understanding ourselves. This usually means standing for some time in the dark, not knowing what the result will be. But with honesty and perserverence we get glimpses and then we work harder and come to learn more.
So I urge you not to take things for granted, rather to strive to practice. The best thing we can do to begin to learn rapidly is to depart from a radical zero base, only this way through experience can we slowly learn all there is.
Feel free to ask more and I hope benefit from your practice.
Join Date: 2003-09-06
Forum Posts: 150
the thing that most of us dont realise at first when coming to these studies is, that we are all very fallen. Whether homosexuals or not, we were all giving in to lust for a long time and it brought us where we are.
Everyone, who starts to investigate sincerely the depths of his psyche will realise the truth of his state soon. We all have to change radically, if we want to get anywhere spiritually. Spiritually is not just talking nice things about love and compassion, but also about looking sincerely inside ourselves and work hard for overcoming those things that keep us enslaved to egos. These sincere looks inside may be shocking at first, but if you persist, you may start to see the light in the end of the tunel... Just ask sincerely and pray to be shown in your dreams.
Master Samael uses a very tough words in his books, actually, in one of his books he even writes about how he got a punishment from higher beings for that.:-) However, he did it with the intention to wake people up from the letargy they are in. If you look at todays world, you can see how everybody thinks best of himself, despite the fact that he is violating so many spiritual laws. To read Samaels Hell Devil Karma book is very revealing, we really dont know what we are doing and as a result we are falling more and more.
All the strength!
Lucia
Join Date: 2004-02-17
Forum Posts: 362
I can understand. The style of Master Samael can be a bit harsh on our sentimentalities. Reading these books for the first time, mind tends to react against it. Actually, if this book does not shakes up someting in everyone, it will be a just "another book".
We are so used to see ourselves glorified. We like the books that tell us that - we are special,..gifted,..,empathic.., loving,..better than the rest,.. a boon for humanity. And the books that tell us what we want to hear about ourselves, obviously have a large commercial market. If we were such a nice humanity, there would not be so much suffering and pain in our world. We somewhere know inside us that something needs to change, that is why we start our search. There is a reason for our unhappiness and we must look for it within ourselves.
What is reacting is in you is that perhaps you are taking it as personally, while he has used such harsh language for humanity as a whole. Unfortunately, truth can not always be coated in honey, someone has to deliver the message that has to be delivered.
About going to 7th layer - Hell is a hell be it a 1st layer or 7th. He has stated the facts as they are, and he is not the first one to explore those dimensions. In "Dante's Divine Comedy", you can read the similar description.
If you can overcome what is making you so angry/offended and make efforts to look within yourself, you will perhaps think differently later on. All of us need to change ourselves, and that requires honesty with ourselves. When we come to face our reality in internal worlds, we only repent and feel remorse for having created terrible monsters within us. And that is the first step to change ourselves. As Jazzarati said we have to start from somewhere.
Give these studies a chance,
best wishes
Trust the man who dares speak unpleasant truths on your face. Bear his words in your heart. Remember them. Improve on them. He does a great favour by speaking thus." - The Mahabharata.
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Forum Posts: 670
Thank you all for the kind responses. I didnt mean to stir up any pot.
But this is real and I dont understand how this can be.
I was really enjoying myself on this spiritual path then I get this bombshell.
Its hard to "give it a try" and follow a way of thinking then the teaching basically says youre full of filth and a dog, and you need to get married and be miserable in order to be saved.
Betty Eadie who wrote Embraced by the Light, where she wrote about her NDE, said that her whole life she was told she was going to hell because she is a Native American, and native Americans are sure to go to hell.
She was taught this all throughout religous school growing up, and it made her depressed and hate herself all of her life.
If Gnostic teachings said that people who are over 6 feet tall are an abomination and going to hell, people would say "Thats unfair. People cant control how tall they are."
Yet when it comes to homosexuals teachers have no problem making us feel terrible about ourselves, even though this is the way God made us.
But homosexuals cant control our sexuality, but we get kicked over and over because of it.
We constantly get groups with rapists, murderers, etc and told we're going to hell.
Let me tell you that I didnt want this. I still dont want this. I hate being gay. It sucks, I dont like being an outcast, growing up alone and being lonely. I didnt like having a secret from family, having no friends growing up, eating lunch by myself all throughout high school, getting buullied when I was younger.
If I could change Id do it in a minute.
:'(
I dont now, I just felt like this is a safe place to learn about the world, myself, but now I see I have to totally change my whole chemistry and be something that Im not in order to find bliss and get avoid hell.
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Join Date: 2003-09-21
Forum Posts: 93
Even if you are homosexual you can practice the two of three fundamental Key for Awakening of consciousness ( more about the Keys for Awakening at Courses as Searching Within course and Journey to Enlightenment course ).
And that mean that you need to give your love to mankind, and to work on yourself to become better person.
So, please don?t worry because of this too much, you just do what you can do. And help will come with time as understanding too.
Join Date: 2004-02-17
Forum Posts: 362
Don't be in a decisive mood right now. Don't just imagine yourself in positions that make you feel upset.
It is a lonely world for most, just that some can ignore it, some can feign it otherwise, some can be indifferent. People are in pain for different issues/reasons.
Lust is an element of our psyche that rules the major humanity. When we can see how it operates within us, we can learn to fight it. It just works at a different level in homosexuals.
Take the information at a slow pace. Rushing on with the things can bring confusion and a negative attitude. Explore the courses, they are very practical and if you don't find it comfortable, you always have a choice. The search within course lets us observe and understand the elements of our psyche.
When I found gnosis, I saw a lot that I was searching for, yet it was against everything that I had been identifying myself with. But I made a choice to continue on and to see where it will take me.
hold on and take care
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Join Date: 2003-12-29
Forum Posts: 883
I can only second what everyone else here has already said.
Reading Master Samael's books can be rather shocking and sometimes scary as everyone here seems to agree with.
According to those teachings, we are all going to Hell : homosexuals, masturbators, adulterers, murderers, gamblers, blasphemors, and anyone in general that doesn't take up the 3 keys to awaken.
It's not a nice thing to believe, but if it's true at least something can be done for all of us to pave our way to a fate better than Hell.
That being said, what Rochnefogne D'Orguille mentions is probably the most important thing you can do: verify things for yourself. Don't just believe them.
When we believe we are always going to use our mind and be subjective, because we can only accept/reject, like/dislike what we read.
When we verify we gain a true understanding of the issue at hand. This understanding can go beyond the scope of our mind which does the aforementioned.
When everyone thought the Earth was flat, the thought of a round Earth was rejected. But experience/verification was able to give them understanding that went beyond the reasoning of their minds at the time.
The courses offer a very practical order in learning to understand ourselves. Belief is not encouraged. Verification is.
I wish you all the best in finding happiness and understanding!
ML