Hi Thor,

No one here is trying to condition any one.
The teachings provided here are to be used by individuals
to experience things for themselves.
The forums are a great way to discuss spiritual topics and
experiences to further our growth.
I'm not a moderator but I don't see the point in having
negative or argumentative posts, we're here to learn not argue.

Trent

Dear Trent

To learn not to argue - is to be conditioned.

Anyway - A free discussion goes where the participants lead it.

  Negative or argumentative posts is also a part of our learning. We cannot grow if we are limited.

thor 

Hi there,

Well, people can and have been conditioned to argue, just look at your politicians.

For someone as nihilist as myself who can not really be conditioned for anything, here's a realization that I've already made, read and tell me if this helps:

If we don't ask questions then we don't bother to learn anything, period. You are right; However, when it comes down to people arguing over speculation, which itself can not produce truth, then those presumptions have no point towards acquiring gnosis or gaining knowledge of ourselves... especially during an argument that clearly demonstrates that we are not aware of our own actions.

We are not free when we are subjected under carrying a heavy burden of trying to argue a point that leads nowhere.

Realize that those things are just distractions from the real issue which is that the truth isn't anything that can be found by being told what someone else speculates that it might be.
The only real truth is found in our own esoteric experiences. The fact that this is even an issue shows that people are going in the wrong direction with what is taught instead of coming to know truth through their own Being.

Arguements do not and can not produce tangible truths. If people have experiences that are different then that's fine, but we can not tell anyone else what they need to do, that's for us to figure out on our own with Divine help.

I've asked questions before in other places as well, that probably could have been worded better or didn't comprehend that what we write affects other people's psyche based on the way they percieve things.
With real understanding, Love, and respect for each others' experiences we can parallel our own and use things as tool to examine and explore ourselves better, which is the real point to all this.

Be well!

Hi there too

I cannot disagree with you. 

Only one question remains:

Who can decide whether or not a discussion/ arguing leads to something  useful. No one knows before the discussion has ended - do they?

 You write:

The only real truth is found in our own esoteric experiences. The fact
that this is even an issue shows that people are going in the wrong
direction with what is taught instead of coming to know truth through
their own Being..

thanks - it is nice to meet some sensible person now and then.

You see - when I am 'arguing' 'discussing' I speak from my own experience - my own knowing.

But still I enjoy a nice discussion - normally we are in the end not so far from each other - most of the reasons for argumentation - is - linguistic differencies.

We simply don't put the same meaning into the same words.

But

We will never be able to understand each other if we are not allowed to finish the 'battle'.

yours

in light

thor 

"...most of the reasons for argumentation - is - linguistic differencies"...

- Ha ha, yes.

"Who can decide whether or not a discussion/arguing leads to something useful"...

 - When has it ever been useful to argue?

People can discuss ideas and experiences without it getting argumentative if we are aware while we interact with people.

That is a hard thing to do but that tells us it is the best opportunity to learn about why we do the things we do and what motivates us to argue; it's usually a "self."

"We will never be able to understand each other if we are not allowed to finish the 'battle'"

I think that is counter-intuitive. Sometimes we don't need to articulate any communication with words, we can read body language or sometimes through intuition we can know who is receptive to our communication and who won't be.

Thanks for this opportunity to communicate, it's been an interesting topic. We can continue to watch these principles in everyday life from here and see what else one can learn.

Shouldn't those arguing have the opportunity to discover for themselves that this behaviour doesn't lead them any closer to the truth?  I know that being silenced would be like throwing gasoline on the fire for me personally instead of being a learning experience..

 But I don't know the nature of these threads so I don't know how out of control they were, in some cases I guess ending them is the way to go. 

Something to take into account is that on Gnosticweb, we really want to provide a positive, respectful environment. Sure, we want people to be free to share ideas, but if people can't feel safe and respected, why would they want to learn from this site? If we have petty arguments (I can't say whether it was or not), then more petty arguers will be attracted to the site, and the domain would have to change to pettyarguments.gnosticweb.com, or something like that.
Learning from mistakes is certainly a part of everyday life, and we can certainly learn from posting on forums (I'll often learn about various egos and selves through posting, myself), but an uncivil word can have tremendous negative power. Just think if someone said "You are wrong about all the things you believe in, and are therefore stupid. The correct things are X, Y, and Z", now pretend this person is right, would you be interested in seeing what X, Y, or Z are? So one negative comment can go as far as turning someone away from good information that they might otherwise be able to put to use and get benefit from.
These are some things that come to my mind.
-Julian

I have to agree with alohah Hawaii. It seems to be getting a little bit strict with the postings here. If nobody is cussing or being disrespectful, insulting or hurtful toward other people, a conversation should be allowed to stray or go whichever way the participants want it to.

Being able to freely agree or disagree (argue) is what helps to bring about learning and change. Since the change with Belzebuub, there have been locked topics and deleted posts all over the place. I'm sorry to say this, but that seems a bit fanatic to me. I understand deletion when something gets pointed and accusatory towards a participant, but not when topics stray (as in the opinion of the moderator) or if someone posts too many quotes and not enough in their own words. In my opinion, that's overdoing it folks.

If it had been that way when I first got here, I think they would have been deleting my posts and probably would have deleted my account. Thank goodness they didn't because I have come along way from there. I myself figured out some very vulgar things I posted and went back and deleted whole threads on my own. I also requested some things be deleted that I couldn't delete on my own. Anything too long or with too many quotes that isn't helpful to me, I just skip over it and not read it. But, if I decided that and was a moderater and deleted it, I don't think that would be helpful to the poster, which is the person here to learn.

Dusty

Look, nobody's perfect. People shouldn't be mean, sometimes they are. Moderators should allow a certain range of freedom, sometimes they don't. But things change and move in a movement, the public forums need to be guided at times, and I see especially with a serge in people who are interested in the Christianity aspect, that there's a lot of pride and fanaticism coming into the mix relating to this. Obviously in life, in any system, any organization, there are rules, and there are authorities who place and maintain those rules, and there are those who react to rules, those who adhere to them, those in authority who abuse them, so what. Jesus himself abided by the laws of Caesar.

I think I remember that thread this one's referring to, I think it did need to be moderated as people weren't just being argumentative but were attacking/insulting other users.

"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's."
~Jesus, from Mat 22:21

Hi Dusty,

There's always stuff that happens that brings up reactions, whether Belzebuub is here or not :) A few years ago when I'd first started posting on the public forums, a bunch of my posts had been deleted as I was quoting stuff outside of Gnosticweb, and I argued through email with one of the members over this... I didn't understand and I was reacting to the feeling that I had no freedom... only much later I realized that I shouldn't have been posting the things I'd been posting, and I was glad they had been deleted, and I realized that freedom is mine to have, it doesn't matter what anyone else does on the outside :)

Best wishes,
Jim