Sophisms?
Sophisms?Subscribe |
|
Tue, 10/21/2008 - 09:39
|
|
Lumin Air
Join Date: 2008-08-26 Forum Posts: 107 |
I was wondering if someone could help me clarify..... In the self Discovery Course I was taught not to identify with the ego's since that was a way to dissolve them eventually. I think I also read in the Revolution of Psychology that identifying with them meant you could never rid your self of them.. now I am reading something in the Revolution of Dialect which seems contradictory so I was hoping someone could explain this paragraph to me, since the contradiction is confusing me.
"when they Analyze the subconcious many students of Psychology many students commit th mistake of dividing themselves between analyzer and analyzed, intellect and subconcious, subject and object, perciever and percieved....... Let us not say my 'I' has envy, hatred, Jelousy, lust etc., it is best not to divide ourselves, it is better to say: I have envy, hatred, jelousy, anger, lust etc. "
thank you |
|
|






Join Date: 2005-10-30
Forum Posts: 213
I feel he was referring to the trap that some might fall into to think that they have no responsibility for these egos by creating I and them. When we accept that these egos exist in us, we also accept our responsibility and the need to eradicate them. After all they have our true self bottled up in them - the essence, and the work is to free the essence from them.
Second possibility is that if we do not observe them, meaning see them in action, then we will never learn how they manifest in us. It would be then a mistake to put a defense wall if they are coming from the ground or the sky. In full awareness we will be able to observe the way they sneak behind the driving wheel. If we do this on part time basis, then they will always find a way. Doing this full time and wholeheartedly is the only way. I know from my experience, I always have to return to the basics because I forgot how they got in there the first time. I am feeling that I will need to start a diary to keep track of their actions just like we keep diary for dreams.
Wishing you all a great spiritual morning.
Join Date: 2008-08-26
Forum Posts: 107
Thank you Currently, I see what you mean.
After I wrote that though I thought maybe he meant we must not identify them with our True Self or Being but with our 'I' which we ultimately need to dissolve..?
I think that is a good idea to keep a diary, but I feel like I would be having to write it in every 5 minutes lol
~In beautiful ways we are the blossom of the evolved and the experience of evolving~
Join Date: 2005-03-16
Forum Posts: 343
I think he is speaking about two extremes, neither of which are good. On the one hand, you indulge in egos and rejoice in the cage they produce for you; you identify with them. If you observe the egos matter-of-factly, you see that they are not essentially you, they are just something that is happening in your mind/body/etc...
On the other hand, there is separating them from you entirely, speaking of them as if they were a different thing. This latter option is an intellectual excercise and leads nowhere, as to really change you must very clearly see what is happening within you.
Perhaps this is the True Self thing you were talking about. The best way to do it is to be clear in our observations, then a natural distance comes between you and the egos.
The best way to really understand his comment would be to make sure you have the practice of awareness right. This is no small task and can take quite some time to figure out (and I'm still not sure I have it right).
-Julian
Join Date: 2008-08-26
Forum Posts: 107
Thanks Julian, that really helped calrify things for me a little more.
I really enjoy reading his works, especially when I see my progress in the fact that at first I might not understand what he is saying or it seems contradictory in nature and then suddenly its all more clear. I love the depth of it :)
~In beautiful ways we are the blossom of the evolved and the experience of evolving~
Join Date: 2005-01-26
Forum Posts: 1129
From what I've been through, it seems as if Samael is reffering to denial. At least, that's what immediately comes to mind without having to think about it.
We take responsiblity for these, like Currently said.
If we deny these things, and say they are not a part of us, then we can not take steps towards eliminating them.
It is very important to recognize that these selves are our own doing, we must then work to fix such a blemish ourselves.
Do not divide ourselves from these things which we have created because those internalized "I's" and selves are a part of us we aim to analyze, judge, and destroy.
So really, what I got out of it, was the nature of DENIAL which was the main point.
Anyone can add to this:
Join Date: 2008-08-23
Forum Posts: 14
I feel that, there's a phase when to take up arms and repudiate those aspects of self that are unproductive and damaging to Core Self. This is likely to occur somewhere early on.
but ultimately, a level complete of self acceptance and a geniune respect of erry element of self, must b initiated, here, i think it becomes unnecessary to use 'violence' dis-identification, we can instead use more peaceful means of taking care of the egoic tendencies arousing.. cos in acceptance we wud be doing it out of love and care,...
Join Date: 2004-06-04
Forum Posts: 188
Hello Chise,
From the Gnostic point of view when you begging your inner work it is important to learn how to understand things rather than trying to accept them. As we learn more and more about a particular defect and use the techniques that are a taught here in the courses, we are able to get rid of those elements rather than accepting them and with that we gain true knowledge of the defect and the harm that it causes us spiritually.
All the strength,
Stas
Join Date: 2008-08-23
Forum Posts: 14
Hi stas,
thanks for pointing out the gnostic perspective. I need to step my 'gnostic knowledge' game up since this is a gnosticweb :)
What you say is true. In fact how can we even know what defects are without first gaining an understanding of ourself.
My point was poorly stated. But it is in line with what you said. Its just I see the need to emphasis acceptance of what is there, of the fact that these emotions are natural to my humanity, and at the moment I am helpless to this actuality.
Imagine, the feeling that comes with accepting something, whatever it is doesnt matter, just accepting the concreteness of reality. What feeling accompanes this?
The moment acceptance of anything occurs there's no energy lost, in fact there's relief, according to how I have experienced, almost boardering joy. Cause then one stop condemning onself, there's peace.
Going straight into the 'techniques' without first becoming acquainted with the all self, gives temporal relief. But sooner or later one runs into conflict. When there's no peace, there's self-striving and effort. There's alot of energy worsted on frustration, on feelings that one is not good enough, alot of self inflicted struggle when there shouldnt be any in the frst place. I think often times we fall into the trap of judging ourselves, partly because of the 'approved patterns' that have been put in place and which we surrender and strive to abide by. Maybe its just me.. but
I think that when we realize that noone judges us but ourselves, then we can do the Work effectively and with joy. Thats what its all bout isnt it.
To have permanent relief requires acceptance, and us ceasing to struggle with ourselves because really there's nothing to bustle about.
I am not saying the journey is supposed to be easy, challenges help us grow, I am talking about accepting what comes as it is, and embracing it
I have trouble getting my points across, pardon my english, but i hope you understand better what am tryin to say
Join Date: 2008-09-16
Forum Posts: 6
dear lumen-some stuff talked about in the forums-EGOS-doesnt work for me-i feel talking about egos is like talking about something bad aside the real me but then also in me-i prefer to talk about the own I which is in me manifests from in me and CAN be rectified or more so kept in balance-will always be there-a thought -keep wellmichiel