Solipsism - Should I answer this Question Intelectually or Heart-illy
Solipsism - Should I answer this Question Intelectually or Heart-illySubscribe |
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Sat, 10/04/2008 - 02:27
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Karl
Join Date: 2008-05-09 Forum Posts: 21 |
I have recently stumbled on a difficult problem. How do you know we all see the same world? If I see green grass, will someone else see the same green grass? What if everyone around me is just an illusion projected from my mind (like a character on a TV screen). Can this be investigated using OBE's. Even if it could, and you did manage to go into someone else's soul, would that person still be one of your own thoughts? Or else just me in a past life...I don't know. You could ask the superconcious "divine light" for the answer, but wouldn't that still be your subjective experience? For one, I believe that other people are concious. I don't believe (and don't want to) believe the philisophical zombie probem (which says that other people are just like TV characters, who appear to have feelings but really don't...projected from your mind...illusional) I asked some other spiritual teachers this question. One said that we are "constantly projecting our own ideas onto others without really seeing them the way they are". She said that to stop projecting our own ideas on the world, we have to let go of all preconcieved ideas. She also said that intellect can never answer spiritual questions, because the "truth" is all embracing and intellect disects and analyzes things.
Another spiritual teacher said that I was asking too many questions and that I would never be satisfied or go truly deep into any of them. He also said that this question was counterproductive. He told me to focus on things that feel peaceful at heart. Finally, someone else just said this was a teenage stage, in which we look into ourselves and our own ego- finding our place in the world. Its the (if I close my eyes does the whole world dissapear?) question. Overall, my question is whether I should just drop this question like a hot potato or try to somehow answer it. If I tried to answer it, it might make me and many people upset. Does this questio make anyone else upset? |
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Join Date: 2004-08-04
Forum Posts: 384
When we want to uncover the objective part of life, we have to discover the non-objective part of ourselves first. The very thing which clouds our objectivity, the different ego's that we have within (the different desires, fears, egotistical thoughts, etc.)
These prevent us from being and seeing objectively. Once we have seen them, we can them remove them and change ourselves. Then we can also understand other people much better. The intellect is indeed limited compared to the consciousness, which is imprisoned in the different ego's. The self-discovery course explains a lot about this.
Join Date: 2008-05-09
Forum Posts: 21
what does objective mean?
And how do you think one should go about dealing with this question?
Join Date: 2008-03-18
Forum Posts: 326
To be objective about something means to observe it without emotional or even intellectual bias.
Join Date: 2003-12-26
Forum Posts: 231
Hi Karl,
How do you really feel about answering this question?
Seems like you've asked a few people questions regarding spiritual ideas and for me I don't think you'll ever really find the true meaning for yourself from other peoples beliefs or even experiences on spiritual matters.
Spiritual experiences can only be experienced by the individual and that person then has the understanding of that experience which is true to them but by explaining spiritual ideas to others the person receiving the explaining only has the idea of what someone else has experienced.
Find your own spiritual truths about what you want to know and put all of the opinions and spiritual ideas to the test by finding out if they are true or not by practicing and gaining your own experiences.
Have you check out the course page as there are great tools in the courses to gain experiences with, whether you would like to astral travel or gain a deep self knowledge etc.
All the best
Steve
Join Date: 2006-12-14
Forum Posts: 305
In order to answer this question you have to learn to observe yourself before every situation in every day life.
What we see as other people or as other objects is the impression that they make to us. This impression is due to a reaction from the inside of us.So the mind takes it and puts it into a category of beautiful-ugly, good-evil, etc etc. This category depends on many things but it ends up to pleasure or pain.
For example if a person resembles our mother we put this person in the good category if this person resembles our boss then he certainly goes to the bad category. :)
Or if we see green grass we see ourselves playing football last Sunday and one player passed the ball to us and what an awesome goal we scored! And that blond girl was looking at us... And we start smiling happy in our sleep feeling nice... And green grass is so nice!
If we manage to see the reaction from the inside of us as it comes out then we learn to see reality because our perception is not clouded but if we don't see it then it just causes a chain reaction that produces the sleep of the consciousness.
In the self discovery course you can learn how to observe your inner reactions and you will be able to answer your question by yourself.
Join Date: 2004-11-30
Forum Posts: 2930
Hi Karl,
What does objective mean?
From what I understand, the truly and absolutely objective is Divine -this is the reference point of real objectivity.
And how do you think one should go about dealing with this question?
That's a very good question, I think.
For me trying to experience life as objectively as it is possible connects me with Divine and brings the answers from own experience. What do I mean?
Any thoughts, emotions, feelings, sensations come and distort, cloud perception -trying to stay away from it. Be detached, be out.
Living as much as I can in present moment. Going into five senses, learning from them, finding and enjoying that peace within.
This is far more superior and objective state than being stuck in thoughts about something which had happened a long time ago, for example, I think.
When being in present moment is experienced, it brings an answer.
This state can become more and more objective with practice and spiritual development.
All the best,
Join Date: 2005-01-24
Forum Posts: 666
Hi!
I just wanted to say that you can get an idea to say as how some person perceive something via energetic connection but in my case I perceive emotions more which sometimes I can interpret in thoughts. There were few cases when I had a stronger energetic connection wondering when the me begins and the other person ends because it felt like a one whole. :) So it got me interested in that and what else is there. :)
Join Date: 2003-12-26
Forum Posts: 231
Hello Christos,
In reading your reply here it made me think about Karl's post and In Samaels book revolution of the dialectic he talks about transforming impressions.
Karl if you can read the chapter in this book called "The transformation of impressions it might help you with your question. You can download a copy of this book from the home page of this site. here's a link for you if you would like to check it out http://www.gnosticweb.com/files/pdf/EN_The_Revolution_of_the_Dialectic.p....
We've been studying this chapter of Samael's book in the teachers course and it's a really good chapter.
Hope this helps
Steve
Join Date: 2004-05-28
Forum Posts: 1009
How do you know we all see the same world?
You don't.
If I see green grass, will someone else see the same green grass?
You can't know this... What you see as green might actually be like I see it orange, but since I know grass is "green" then that's the word, but you can't really be sure what I see as green and what you see as green is the same... It's only logical.
What if everyone around me is just an illusion projected from my mind (like a character on a TV screen)?
You can't be absolutely sure. I guess more importantly, what if everyone around you is not an illusion? Then that means they live, breathe, feel, suffer, just like you, so that would imply a level of responsibility to them, as you yourself wouldn't want to suffer or be mistreated, you yourself would want mercy and forgiveness, and guidance to a better way of being.
At least these are my answers to the questions!
Join Date: 2008-05-09
Forum Posts: 21
Thanks for all the responses.
My oppinion overall on this subject (called Solipsism) is that people should avoid questions that they don't have the power to answer, unless they want to be upset. We must wait and just enjoy what we feel other people mean to us instead of trying to overanalyze who they are compared to you.