voting

Here in the USA I know for the most part the candidates are all the same. Two sides of the same fake coin. Either way, the dollar is already crashed, and none of the candidates will do anything really useful in that area. When someone who makes sense (Ron Paul) finally gets some attention, he's squashed like a bug by the media and the vast majority of people think he's crazy.

Yeah, the concept is great, and I think local elections are probably less corrupt than the big joke we call presidential elections.

If you see someone who can be of some good, I would think that you are somewhat karmically responsible for voting for them, otherwise you just ignored the ability you have to put someone good in office. Then again, we have to be really careful about who we think is good, because obviously politics is a dirty game and it's practically impossible to find an honest politician, except for Ron Paul, lol. I don't want to get into politics though, he got squashed anyway.

Hi Andy,

Yes it's a fact, in Australia it is compulsory to vote if you are over 18, if you don't vote you get fined. As such we are in an entirely different situation to you guys in terms of how the system works. I actually think there is great benefit to this, I imagine if everyone in the US was forced to vote, the way elections are run and the political outcomes would be vastly different to what you have today.

I couldn't say if it is important or not from a spiritual point of view - I guess one benefit could be to look inside yourself at the egos that may be stirred up through political discussions etc and use it as a means to do the inner work. As society (including governments) is a reflection of the individuals with in it, if the individuals can change then the society will change, so the inner work is what is important. If voting provides a means to do that then great!

For Australians, we have to vote on our weekend (I think you guys get time off work to vote, for us not only is it compulsory, we have to do it in our spare time!) So for me personally, aside from the egos that can get stirred up through political discussion, I often see egos of laziness and annoyance arise on the day itself. All this is beneficial for the work so I say it's a good thing.

Strength to everyone!

Amy

You do what you can do, and voting is one of the ways you may be able to make a difference.

It is sad though, that most of us now vote to get someone out of power rather than get someone else into power!

In Australia, you have to vote by law and are fined for not voting.

In my opinion it makes sense to vote for those who understand well politics, a current political situation, knows the "inside" of candidates, etc.

Unfortunately, politics is governed by other laws and interests than spiritual.
So when it is a time to "go and vote", for me it's always a question of other choices, so much I can do, and a day has only 24 hours!

I generally don't vote because i feel that there really is not much of a choice (I live in the U.S.). However, this election cycle i did vote for Ron Paul (the only honest candidate, in my view) in the primaries, but his chances have been abysmally low from the start thanks to special interests and the media. I did not vote for him because i thought he would win, but because he's the only one who would actually try to change things for the better.

I usually try to stay away from politics (even though I'm a IR major, but thats a different story) because its very shady. Ultimately, its up to you whether you vote or not. If there is a candidate you feel stands for positive change and progress, go for it!

All the best

The problem with voting, in America, is that by the time the candidates are chosen, it really doesn't matter who you pick, they are all going to perpetuate the system that keeps them in power and keeps the right people from attaining any such position.

..."lower level politicians haven't been "corrupted" as much by money and self-interest (yet),"

- exactly,,,

Most government anywhere in the world today, is only disguised feudalism.

You can lie and call it democracy or an American republic, but the fact is that only those elite rich can have any chance at getting elected. They are only going to preserve their own interests because they are ruled by the "self."
They engineer things like war, and as Samael even said, you can bet that the same people that engineered the first 2 world wars at at it again, setting in motion the 3rd one.

Only those with money to campaign have any chance in the U.S. If you have/raise money to run, like Ron Paul, then the media railroads you because your obviously not going to perpetuate the feudal system.

Secular legislation and Divine law are completely different things. Separation of Church and State makes sure they don't cross each other, but then you get Liberal groups infiltrating the government to change it to fit their own selfish agendas.

We can go on for hours about what is wrong with the secular government but this is not a forum for it.

So from a spiritual perspective, let those things which be Ceasar's be Ceasar's, and those things that belong unto God, be God's. Nothing lasts forever and eventually Ceasar's Empire will crumble.
It's seems to have already started in America.

People over here (Norway) might say that if you didn't bother to vote, you don't get to complain about the outcome either... There's something to be said for doing what we can to contribute to improving things in society, even if it's not a whole lot and even if it means choosing the lesser of two evils. The world still needs to have people in charge, even if they don't do a perfect job at it. We still need to function within society and deal with its imperfections.

The one vote we have might not matter much, but realistically thousands of people might be thinking that it's no use and the world's going to hell in a handbasket anyway and there's nothing that can be done about it so why vote? On the other hand thousands of people could be first in line to vote without having made an informed decision. I don't know much about the US presidential elections, but I imagine that details about individual candidates that aren't even politics-related, are going to matter this year.

Here in Norway I think the election results matter less than in the States - basically no matter how right-wing or left-wing a political party may be, it is essentially socialist, and the basic priorities are the same. Politicians are generally trustworthy and decent - just regular people... We had a (former?) priest as our prime minister - twice. Things usually work pretty well, though of course like any other country we have our problems. I'm pretty clueless about the whole corrupt politicians thing, it's not really an issue here, but just cause the outcome isn't going to be perfect doesn't mean it's pointless to try.

Liz

Liz,

The problem here is that there is no such thing as an honest politician. The entire country is being governed by a handful of people who we don't see or control or vote into office. The presidential elections are a scam by this handful of people to give the public an illusion of choice, but each president will perpetuate the same basic problem. It's all about money. The elite of the elite get richer while they abuse the economic system of this entire country that is headed toward another very great depression because of it. So unfortunately, the two choices we are always left with is either, someone who will drive us further into the hole economically overseas, or someone who will do it within borders through amnesty and welfare. There isn't really a "lesser" of two evils there.

Apakhana,

I would agree more or less. Except America never was home of the Holy Roman Empire, but a separate entity altogether. Ceasar's Empire you'll find very much alive as the European Union, with Germany still leading us into the 3rd World War.

But yes, great point, let the world be the world, we ought to worry about the one thing that matters, the Spirit within. Anyways, intuition is just about the only way to sift through all the tainted history and politics without getting lost or misled. It is useful to know about the workings of the world in which we live, but it can get really intellectual and complex if we don't have our heart in the right place.

Fair enough Jim.

I'm not sure where your comments about the European Union and Germany came from, but let's not make this the place for unfounded theories...

Liz

Why do you say it's a theory? It's not a theory to me, but a fact just like 1 + 1 = 2 :)

I hope my previous post didn't come across wrong, just wanted to point out the situation of the USA compared to what you said about Norway. From what I've heard (very little) about Norway, it's a pretty good country altogether huh? (besides the election situation you mention)